What Jobs Learned Making Toy Story
I just watched a newly released 1996 interview with Steve Jobs about the early days of Pixar. Right after Toy Story came out. After 10 years of building toward this moment.
What struck me wasn’t the technical details or the business stuff. It was Jobs being honest about what mattered and what didn’t.
The 10-Year Bet
Jobs bought Pixar from Lucasfilm in 1985. Ed Catmull showed him what the team was doing. Shared his dream about making the first computer-animated feature film.
Jobs bought into that dream “both financially and spiritually.” Spent the next decade losing $50 million before Toy Story came out.
Ten years. Fifty million dollars. One dream.
He’d been involved in graphics his whole career. Apple II was the first affordable color computer. Mac was obviously graphics. LaserWriter too. But it was all 2D.
Catmull’s team was doing work “way ahead of anything I’d ever seen anyone do.”
Not just the technology. The possibility of what it could become.
The Learning Curve
Jobs had to learn filmmaking from scratch. Already a businessman and tech guy. But animation? New territory.
He hired people who knew what they were doing. John Lasseter and Andrew Stanton from Disney. “The best in the world at what they do.”
His approach: stay out of their way.
“I don’t know anything about it, thank God, because they’re the best. My goal is to figure out what great work looks like and make sure nothing interferes with their ability to do that.”
Harder than it sounds. Takes self-awareness to know what you don’t know and trust other people to handle it.
The Technology Trap
This blew my mind. When they made Luxo Jr. in 1986, it took about three hours to render each frame. Ten years later, computers were 100 times faster.
How long did it take to render each frame of Toy Story? Three hours.
Same render time. Frames were 100 times more complex.
Their second film (A Bug’s Life) got 5-10 times more computer power than Toy Story. Still took three hours per frame.
Jobs called this a constant: “Our ambitions visually are growing as fast as the technology can feed them.”
That’s the trap with technology. People think faster computers mean easier work. If you’re actually pushing boundaries, faster computers just mean you can do more complex work in the same amount of time.
The Mantra
The most important lesson Jobs learned from John Lasseter: “No amount of technology can turn a bad story into a good story.”
That became Pixar’s mantra. “It’s the story, stupid.”
Jobs emphasized this hard. “Storytelling is a real art. We’re always going to be working on it. It hasn’t changed in a long time. I’m not sure it will. Technology has nothing to do with it.”
Coming from the guy who revolutionized personal computing, that’s a hell of a statement.
Why Jobs Switched from Software to Stories
Jobs said this in the interview and it hit me hard. He talked about the difference between selling technology and making content.
“You can hardly find an Apple II around anymore. You still can in schools, but that’s about it. It’s not clear whether you’ll be able to boot up a Macintosh five years from now or not. All these technology boxes and software, if it has a life of a year or two, you’re very lucky. If it has a life of five years, it’s extraordinary.”
Then he contrasted that with movies.
Disney made Snow White in 1937. Sixty years later, they re-released it on video and sold 28 million copies. Made about a quarter billion dollars in profit. Six decades after its initial release.
Jobs watched his young son watch Snow White 30 or 40 times. “It really hit me that these stories renew themselves with each generation of young children. These are our myths.”
He thought about everyone he knows on most continents of the world. Everyone knows the story of Snow White.
“People are going to be watching Toy Story in 60 years. Not because of the computer graphics, but because of the story about friendship.”
Very different than the industry he worked in before. The opportunity to put stories into the culture. Stories that last.
“If we can work really hard and be lucky again and again, that’s a rare opportunity. Everybody at Pixar feels really privileged to have this opportunity.”
Art + Technology + Business
The magic formula at Pixar was combining three things: art, technology, business.
Need all three. Just two doesn’t work.
Technology enables new art forms. Business makes it sustainable. Art gives it meaning.
Most people only understand one or maybe two pieces. Jobs had to learn all three. He came in understanding technology and business. Had to develop taste in animation.
“I had to learn what great work looked like in this field because I certainly didn’t know.”
Not about being an expert in everything. About knowing what great work looks like and building an environment where that work can happen.
The Disney Deal
The Disney deal took three years to negotiate. Three years of back-and-forth while burning cash and trying to stay afloat.
Jobs doesn’t say this explicitly, but reading between the lines - those negotiations probably saved Pixar. They needed Disney’s distribution and marketing. Disney needed Pixar’s technology and creative vision.
Neither side was doing the other a favor. Genuine partnership born out of necessity.
What Actually Mattered
Looking back at this interview almost 30 years later, what’s interesting is how right Jobs was about longevity.
Nobody cares that it took three hours to render a frame. Nobody remembers the exact specs of the computers they used.
What matters is they made something people loved. They told good stories. They pushed the medium forward.
The technology was necessary but not sufficient. The business acumen was necessary but not sufficient. The artistic vision was necessary but not sufficient.
Needed all three, working together, over a long enough timeline that most people would have quit.
Ten years. Fifty million dollars. One dream.
That’s what it took to build Pixar.
The Part Nobody Talks About
Nobody emphasizes enough the perseverance through uncertainty.
Jobs spent a decade losing money on something most people thought was crazy. Computer-animated films? Nobody knew if audiences would even want that.
But he believed in Ed Catmull’s vision. Believed in John Lasseter’s talent. Believed in the team they were building.
Not about technology or business strategy. About faith in people and commitment to an idea that might not work.
Most of us quit way before ten years. We quit after ten months. Sometimes after ten days.
Pixar worked because Jobs didn’t quit. Because he was smart enough to know what he didn’t know and hire people who did.
And because he understood something fundamental about what lasts.
Software has a shelf life measured in years. Stories have a shelf life measured in generations.
The Apple II is gone. Snow White is still teaching kids about good and evil.
That’s why he made the switch.
Watch the full 1996 interview here. Twenty-two minutes of Steve Jobs being remarkably honest about what actually went into building Pixar.